Future of the media in Wales / Dyfodol y cyfryngau yng Nghymru
	 
Monday November 28, 2011
1:42
	
	
Assembly/Cynulliad: 
Hello and welcome to this National Assembly for Wales web chat on the 
Welsh media sector.

This chat will be live between 6 and 7pm on Monday 28 November.

Contributions to this web chat are via invitation only but moderators 
will also be following #welshcyfryngau on Twitter for relevant comments.

Although this web chat ends at 7pm, we will leave the comments area 
open on the National Assembly blog for people to continue the 
discussion if they so choose:

http://nationalassemblyforwales.wordpress.com/2011/11/08/live-chat-beta/

Helo a chroeso i sgwrs we’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol am y sector 
cyfryngau yng Nghymru.

Bydd y sgwrs yn fyw rhwng 18:00 a 19:00 ddydd Llun 28 Tachwedd.

Dim ond drwy wahoddiad y gallwch gyfrannu at y sgwrs. Bydd cymedrolwyr 
yn dilyn #mediacyfryngau ar Twitter i weld sylwadau perthnasol.

Er y bydd y sgwrs yn dod i ben am 19:00, byddwn yn gadael yr ardal 
sylwadau ar agor ar flog y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol er mwyn i bobl 
barhau â’r drafodaeth os byddant yn dewis gwneud hynny.

http://nationalassemblyforwales.wordpress.com/2011/11/08/live-chat-beta/
1:43
	[Standby]  The host is placing this Live Event into Standby Mode.
5:36
	[Standby]  The host is placing this Live Event into Standby Mode.
5:58
	
	
Ken Skates AM: 
Good evening and welcome to this webchat on the future of the media in 
Wales. My name is Ken Skates and I am the Chair of the Task and Finish 
Group conducting this inquiry. My colleagues, Janet Finch Saunders AM 
and Bethan Jenkins AM are also participating.
Thanks,
Ken
5:59
	
	
Ken Skates AM: 
In order to try to ensure that our discussion is structured, and that 
we get the most from the session, can I suggest that we follow this 
‘agenda’ –
1) The current State of the Media in Wales and how technology is 
impacting on this.
2) Opportunities to build new media business models in Wales.
3) What other issues do you think the Task and Finish Group should 
look at and why?
5:59
	
	
Ken Skates AM: 
As you will have seen from your invitation, comments will be 
moderated, and can be made in Welsh or English.
So, to start us off, can I ask you: How are technological developments 
impacting on the Welsh media and on the way we communicate?
When you make your first comment, could you indicate who you are and 
what your role is, please?
6:00
	
	
Janet Finch-Saunders: 
Hello David
6:00
	
	
Comment From David Williams  
Hi Ken / colleagues,
6:00
	
	
Ken Skates AM: 
Hi David, glad you're with us
6:00
	
	
Bethan: 
Hello from Neath!
6:01
	
	
Comment From Peter D Cox  
I am a former sme owner (Wales Fast Growth 50 company), chair of arts 
organisations, chair Cardiff Civic Society: writer, blogger, and - 
apparently - Cardiff's 'acid' tweeter.
6:01
	
	
Janet Finch-Saunders: 
Welcome Peter
6:01
	
	
Ken Skates AM: 
Excellent, let's get started with the first issue then
6:01
	
	
Comment From RickWaghorn  
Hello from Norwich...
6:01
	
	
Ken Skates AM: 
How are technological developments impacting on the Welsh media and on 
the way we communicate?
6:01
	
	
Ken Skates AM: 
Feel free to comment as you wish
6:02
	
	
Janet Finch-Saunders: 
Hello Rick,

6:02
	
	
Comment From Peter D Cox  
There's a widespread assumption that somehow 'new media' will expand 
in Wales to fill the awful vacuum of print news media (in both Welsh 
and English): what grounds are there for supposing that this is a real 
possibility? And how could - even a successful expansion of online 
news media - cross the digital divide which is extreme in Wales?
6:03
	
	
Bethan: 
Peter, you say that the Welsh Government did nothing to stop Guardian 
Cardiff from closing down. What do you think is the role for welsh 
government in the media?
6:03
	
	
Comment From David Williams  
We run two hyper local web sites in Montgomeryshire (mywelshpool and 
mynewtown) and carried out extensive research into the 'state of local 
media' before we launched and identified that the more established 
forms of media simply were not making the same impact any longer
6:03
	
	
Comment From Peter D Cox  
Why, for example, did the Welsh Government, do nothing to try to 
prevent the most exciting experiment in new news media (Guardian 
Cardiff) closing down?
6:04
	
	
Comment From RickWaghorn  
Well, Eric Schmidt speaking at DreamForce 11 this summer said that 
future platforms needed to be 'mobile, social and local...' For me 
they are the cornerstones of this whole debate...
6:04
	
	
Comment From David Williams  
We found that there was indeed a real need for 'local' news online and 
in the 15 months since we launched we have been overwhelmed by the 
response
6:05
	
	
Ken Skates AM: 
David, can you explain how your model works?
6:05
	
	
Comment From RickWaghorn  
By way of background, I'm the ceo of Addiply... a local, self-serve ad 
platform... we were part of UTV's winning IFNC bid for Wales and were 
sat on GuardianCardiff before they decided to go 'do America... Hence 
my continuing interest in the whole Welsh media scene...
6:06
	
	
Ken Skates AM: 
perhaps this will illustrare the mobile/social/local needs of future 
platforms
6:06
	
	
Comment From David Williams  
more and more people are 'living' on the net soon and have even become 
reliant on our service
6:06
	
	
Comment From Peter D Cox  
We have to accept that Wales is a small nation - even though it can 
think big. The are many aspects of civic life - and it seems a vibrant 
media is one of them - which cannot be supported with a simple 
'business-profit' model. We don't expect individuals to build roads .. 
why do we expect small scale newspapers, radio stations etc to be able 
to be profitable? We need new 'social engagement models' for 
traditional as well as new media.
6:07
	
	
Bethan: 
what do you mean by 'social engagement models please Peter?
6:07
	
	
Ken Skates AM: 
Rick, can you give us some details about Addiply?
6:07
	
	
Janet Finch-Saunders: 


How can local providers in wales compete against the major media 
players ?
6:08
	
	
Comment From David Williams  
Certainly Ken, www.mywelshpool.co.uk basically provides a daily mix of 
news, sport, features and business news to Welshpool and its 
surrounding communities (25,000 people). Everything on there is 
relevent to them and obviously this becomes attractive to local 
businesses who have supported us in their droves. Everone has bought 
into it from Powys County Council, Town and community councils, clubs, 
societies as well as businesses as the best, quickest and most 
reliable way of getting information out there
6:09
	
	
Comment From David Williams  
As a result of its success we launched www.mynewtown.co.uk and intend 
launching more to cover the whole of Powys in the next 12 months and 
then look further afield
6:09
	
	
Ken Skates AM: 
So it is an information hub for the community, with the focus on info 
sharing rather than investigative journalism?
6:09
	
	
Comment From RickWaghorn  
Addiply gives publishers the chance to control their own ad space... 
select their own ad rates... with a 90% revenue return.
6:10
	
	
Comment From Peter D Cox  
Partnerships between end users, providers, public funders, investors 
(perhaps using the CIC model or co-ops. But they need seed funding, 
and continuing core funding from the public purse - know that 
unfashionable and hard .. but without it democracy is suffering
6:10
	
	
Comment From RickWaghorn  
It's a free piece of software that you embed into the back of your 
website... the digital equivalent of allowing people to place ads in 
the window of their local Post Office; for a fiver a week, a tenner a 
month...
6:11
	
	
Comment From David Williams  
It is journalist-driven... the content is rich and its lead stories 
are picked up by the local media. I would say about 70 per cent comes 
from press releases etc and the rest from good old journalism (which 
is about the same for newspapers)
6:11
	
	
Bethan: 
so who should be doing the work on scoping the new business models and 
securing seed funding for such ventures??
6:12
	
	
Ken Skates AM: 
Ok, thanks for contributions so far. Can we focus in on the potential 
for David's model to fill the void left by a shrinking print media
6:12
	
	
Comment From Marc Webber  
Wales is in danger of losing it's voice if there is not a moral 
support for hyperlocal content from the Welsh Assembly or Welsh 
Assembly Government
6:12
	
	
Comment From Joni Ayn Alexander  
From what I've seen of most "hyperlocal" sites, they are info sharing, 
and don't tend to delve deep into investigative journalism.
6:12
	
	
Comment From Peter D Cox  
And I am wary of a net only delivered solution as was hatched for the 
'national Welsh language' 'newspaper'.
6:12
	
	
Comment From RickWaghorn  
But think like a network... means that a Port Talbot mum can place an 
ad herself for her Mums and Toddlers Group BUT equally allows 
TescosLocal (Port Talbot) to drop an ad into that same space...
6:13
	
	
Bethan: 
it doesn't necessarily equate that digital should fill the void. We 
have papers now that want to stay open, and we need to be looking at 
ways of sustaining them potentially but in new ways, and encouraging 
multi platform developments? What do people think?
6:13
	
	
Ken Skates AM: 
So, can net-only content adequately hold public bodies to account or 
is this something that requires print and broadcast media?
6:14
	
	
Comment From Peter D Cox  
LOL - I am afraid Ken's comment is already prejudging the seriousness 
of the issue and a presumed solution "Can we focus in on the potential 
for David's model to fill the void left by a shrinking print media "
6:14
	
	
Comment From David Williams  
For our business, I work in partnership with Graham Breeze who was 
Managing Editor for North Wales Media. Now we have established the 
brand and it has worked, we are in the process of how we can expand, 
where and how quickly
6:14
	
	
Comment From Marc Webber  
There are people in Wales who wish to run such organsiations or run 
them already, but just need moral support and people within government 
to shout about them.
6:14
	
	
Comment From Marc Webber  
I helped launch a new service for Neath called www.FYI-Neath.co.uk
6:14
	
	
Comment From RickWaghorn  
Eric Schmidt: didn't mention print presses, copper wires or TV 
transmitter masts...
6:14
	
	
Comment From Joni Ayn Alexander  
It's not the media -- it's the journalism that holds public bodies to 
account. Don't confuse the two.
6:15
	
	
Comment From Peter D Cox  
Ken: answer - of course we need all three - print, net, broadcast. 
Often in competition
6:15
	
	
Comment From Marc Webber  
It is supported by one of Wales' biggest indie tv firms, Telesgop, and 
Neath rugby club.
6:15
	
	
Bethan: 
Marc- www.FYI-Neath.co.uk is all volunteer run though isn't it? They 
don't pay journalists to do any work. can this be the way of the 
future, therefore??
6:15
	
	
Comment From Neil Cocker  
Evening. Apologies for late entry. Wasn't 100% clear that there would 
be a link at the bottom of the page to open this. Was expecting it to 
open in the page itself. Kept refreshing to no avail! :-)
6:15
	
	
Comment From David Williams  
We keep our fnger on the pulse and if people arent happy with 
something, then we ask the relevent questions to the relevent people
6:16
	
	
Comment From Robert Andrews  
Online media both a) mean a proliferation of non-Welsh content from 
around the UK and world to fill citizens' media time, and b) an 
opportunity for Welsh people/publishers to create some of that 
content. On a) Understand that any demise that is determined in 
old-media audience is not purely to lack of investment - the ways with 
which we can now fill our time are multitudinous.
6:16
	
	
Bethan: 
Can I retweet on here-?!

Comment From Joni Ayn Alexander Joni Ayn Alexander : ]
It's not the media -- it's the journalism that holds public bodies to 
account. Don't confuse the two.
6:16
	
	
Comment From Robert Andrews  
[international editor, paidContent]
6:16
	
	
Comment From Peter D Cox  
Good point Jolyian. The idea that bloggers are to be the salvation of 
democracy is only partly true ...
6:17
	
	
Comment From David Williams  
It is important for us to ensure our expansion is done properly... 
i.e. appoint editors for each site with a strong journalistic 
background and eye for a good story
6:17
	
	
Comment From Marc Webber  
It is a low cost option allowing local people in Neath to contribute 
content. It is founded by the Neath community, with us just being the 
conduit for their content
6:17
	
	
Comment From Marc Webber  
No, FYI is a business. Our advertising on the front page pays for our 
management costs.
6:17
	
	
Bethan: 
ah right, thanks Marc.
6:17
	
	
Comment From Neil Cocker  
By way of an intro, I'm an entrepreneur and consultant. I run events 
that attract people from across south wales creative industries, 
entrepreneurial & tech scenes. I'm passionate about Cardiff's startup 
culture and am concerned about the lack of scalable web startups for a 
city of our size.
6:17
	
	
Ken Skates AM: 
Have the established media institutions in Wales fully embraced the 
developments in digital technology?
6:17
	
	
Comment From Joni Ayn Alexander  
By that I mean broadcast/digital/paper are not the same as what goes 
in them. On the subject of hyperlocal, the people who take up these 
small niche area sites do it for different reasons. The reasons are 
not always to do with journalism. Community building is a common one. 
Ask Will Perrin of Talk About Local.
6:18
	
	
Comment From David Williams  
The only person who can upload content on our sites is the editor 
(just like a newspaper)
6:18
	
	
Comment From Marc Webber  
Telesgop pay staff to film video content
6:18
	
	
Comment From Marc Webber  
And they put up content from real people in neath
6:19
	
	
Comment From Robert Andrews  
An emerging generation of consumer is disregarding established media 
brands as the route to news, instead relying on word-of-mouth for its 
discovery of news and other content. Consumers may get to the same 
destination, but less so and, if so, via different means.
6:19
	
	
Bethan: 
neil you say there is a 'lack of scalable web startups.' Should this 
funding come from Council's or from Welsh Government, or no government 
intervention at all?
6:19
	
	
Janet Finch-Saunders: 
Do you think the growth in political blogs in Wales can reinvigorate 
public debate ?
6:19
	
	
Comment From RickWaghorn  
You want to *really* innovate... re-visit the whole UTV/IFNC model... 
build a networked Local TV model for Wales; video to mobile... and 
then drop your political Assembly videos into Borth 'TV', Swansea 
'TV', Tenby 'TV'....
6:19
	
	
Comment From Marc Webber  
We're not making millions and neither do we expect to. But we will 
make a profit
6:19
	
	
Comment From Marc Webber  
No, Ken, the traditional media companies haven't embraced the tech 
opps available to them. They cannot be fleet of foot enough to do this.
6:20
	
	
Ken Skates AM: 
In that case, how viable are the possibilities for setting up 
low-cost, online businesses in Wales?
6:20
	
	
Bethan: 
Rick- will the Uk Governmen'ts Local TV initiative pay for this then?!
6:20
	
	
Comment From Huw Marshall  
Apologies for my late entry, just been reading back on the earlier 
comments..
6:21
	
	
Comment From RickWaghorn  
Effectively you're starting with a blank piece of paper... that being 
the case, think from Day One like a network... and Robert's right, 
btw... that's the 'social' bit of Eric's three cornerstones...
6:21
	
	
Bethan: 
croeso cynnes huw!
6:21
	
	
Comment From David Williams  
Newspapers wont cut their own throats by putting content on line
6:21
	
	
Comment From Robert Andrews  
"Hyperlocal" has prove to be a white elephant - full of so much 
promise for so many years. Local news production indeed has a part to 
play. But the number of examples of folk who are making quality 
content, sustainably or at profit are few and far between. Don't lose 
sight of the current scale operators.
6:21
	
	
Comment From David Williams  
I can only share our experience Ken. North Wales Media actively tried 
to put us out of business back in February when they realised how 
popular we had become. They circulated a very tacky marketing leaflet 
to local companies questioning our crudentials and success which was 
very naive as all of our stats are compiled by Google Analytics and 
water tight.
6:21
	
	
Comment From Peter D Cox  
I think it's also narrow to think of net content being like a 
newspaper: I for one find the Guardian's iPad distinctly unappealing - 
old news, served up prettily. What's needed is a clear link between 
the print journalist and the broadcast, net media. BBC tries but 
fails. WM/Echo in Cardiff ditto.
6:22
	
	
Comment From RickWaghorn  
Bethan... yep....
6:22
	
	
Comment From Marc Webber  
The real content that people like in wales is being posted onto 
Facebook or social media. They are using the wrong technology - trying 
to build empires on their platforms, not keeping costs down by using 
platforms real people are using
6:22
	
	
Comment From David Williams  
I believe we have proved that it is viable... we just need to end the 
monopoly on County Council/Assembly spending on public notices in 
newspapers only so we can help use that sort of funding to expand 
online local media
6:22
	
	
Comment From RickWaghorn  
There's a funding pot there; 20 pilot areas...
6:22
	
	
Comment From RickWaghorn  
Build yourself a model; that you roll out... re-skin for town after 
town after town....
6:22
	
	
Comment From Peter D Cox  
Janet: some bloggers have done just that - winner of this year's blog 
awards for one- but it's sadly cottage industry. And the political 
institutions brush them aside .. they aren't seen as serious - hence 
my soubriquet of 'acid' from a politician .. :)
6:23
	
	
Comment From Neil Cocker  
Hi Bethan - There is a definite need, for example, for startup 
accelerators (intensive "bootcamps" with access to potential 
investment at the end). We've seen huge success in places such as 
Boulder, Colorado (pop'n 100,000 - hi-tech, scalable startups = 100s). 
But these should be supported by WG, and delivered by people with real 
experience. Doug Richard's School For Startups in Cardiff a few months 
ago was a great example, but just scratching the surface.
6:23
	
	
Comment From Marc Webber  
There are now nearly 900k welsh people on facebook, how many big welsh 
players are communicating with all of them? None
6:23
	
	
Comment From Glyn Mottershead  
[lecturer in digital journalism, Cardiff University] - sorry for the 
late arrival
6:23
	
	
Comment From David Williams  
RickWaghorn: Agreed... exactly what we are doing with our brand
6:24
	
	
Bethan: 
very interesting neil. If we could have more info on that as a 
committee, that would be superb!
6:24
	
	
Comment From Joni Ayn Alexander  
Ken, when I experimented with LlandaffNews.com about two years ago, I 
looked quite hard at the possibility of turning the site into a 
business. That included looking at Addiply. But this "hyperlocal" site 
wasn't sustainable as a business -- only as a hobby. And that's why 
the site is currently an archive to the year-long project. Sustaining 
hyperlocal is very difficult because ultimately people have 
electricity bills to pay.
6:24
	
	
Ken Skates AM: 
Interesting points, Marc
6:24
	
	
Comment From Neil Cocker  
As a comparison to the rates of startup activity in Boulder, our city 
is 3 times the size, has a comparable quality of life, and yet I 
struggled to put 8 people around a table who ran scalable web 
enterprises when I organised a private networking dinner recently.
6:24
	
	
Comment From Huw Marshall  
I'm glad to say that Rick at Addiply have seen the potential for the 
welsh language market and is developing systems which will work in 
both languages
6:25
	
	
Comment From Robert Andrews  
To conceive of anything as TV-first, as Jeremy Hunt has, and even as 
the IFNC idea before it did - though to a lesser extent - is 
short-sighted in the modern digital context. Just as it would be 
short-sighted to finance a "newspaper" alone. TV, in particular, is a 
very costly medium - and currently ill-suited to on-demand 
consumption, which text and the eventual VOD agora, are and will be 
good at. This is important re: local TV because few people will tune 
in to a live local TV broadcast, but they may find five minutes to 
watch or read something at their leisure) Cross-platform is the 
watchword.
6:25
	
	
Comment From Peter D Cox  
My experience of 'new media' startup projects (in which I have been 
involved) is that they start - but then leave the infants to die ...
6:25
	
	
Ken Skates AM: 
Interesting points Marc, can digital media be used to deliver proper, 
robust and informed political debate that reaches significant Welsh 
audiences?
6:25
	
	
Comment From Marc Webber  
Instead they are wasting money on building websites and apps which 
welsh people have to choose to find. Reality is they are not making 
that choice and staying on social networks where their friends are
6:26
	
	
Comment From Joni Ayn Alexander  
David mentions something that I encountered whilst at Media Wales -- 
county council domination of ad spends. That has an effect on the 
viability of hyperlocals. It also has an impact on the content of 
newspapers.
6:26
	
	
Janet Finch-Saunders: 
Thanks Peter - There are some excellent political blogs out there and 
| believe that they are already making a valid contribution to our 
Welsh democracy. The Druid etc
6:26
	
	
Bethan: 
robert- so I'm hearing that cross platform development is key- no 
point doing one without the other?
6:27
	
	
Comment From RickWaghorn  
OK... Welsh Assembly advertising? Regional Health Authority 
advertising... drop that into a national ad network... but 
targetted... the health profile of Neath will be different to that of 
Borth... so the Assembly can part 'subsidise' a networked model via 
appropriate advertising...
6:27
	
	
Comment From David Williams  
We have also plugged our sites in with Twiter and Facebook. When 
police were looking for a rapist in Welshpool; they sent us the 
photofit... we posted on our site... alerted our 3,500 members on 
Facebook and the guy was caught two ours later
6:27
	
	
Comment From Neil Cocker  
Bethan - as a starter, have a look at Techstars and Y Combinator. Both 
hugely successful accelerators, generating truly investable and 
scalable businesses.
6:27
	
	
Comment From Marc Webber  
I believe it can, Ken, if you allow people to have the democratic 
conversation in their space. So all tools and info and marketing needs 
to be platform neutral
6:27
	
	
Comment From RickWaghorn  
Joniayn... other point is that journalists *hate* ad sales...
6:27
	
	
Janet Finch-Saunders: 
How can we increase viewer interest into assembly proceedings ?
6:27
	
	
Comment From Neil Cocker  
Am also looking at other ways to improve the startup culture in 
Cardiff (much more nebulous, but there really is so little of it at 
the moment - not to be confused with SME culture).
6:27
	
	
Comment From Peter D Cox  
Political debate doesn't have to be conducted on websites alone: I 
have had more influence on Twitter than I ever did by erudite 
(hopefully) blogging. The immediacy is important, the spread and the 
interactivity.
6:28
	
	
Comment From RickWaghorn  
So we build a model in which third parties can sell ads for you... ie 
enable the business studies students in Welsh colleges to learn a new 
trade... learn how to sell digital advertising in a 'mentored' 
environment... you're getting your Welsh kids to 'earn and learn' AND 
support your neew media platforms...
6:28
	
	
Comment From Huw Marshall  
My earlier point outlining why I am here and the welsh language online 
projects I am involved with seems not to have appeared.....
6:28
	
	
Comment From Huw Marshall  
I've been working on two Welsh language projects, one an independent 
Welsh language radio station broadcasting on the web only the other is 
cartref.com which is being developed in partnership with Talk About 
Local which will act as a hub for welsh language hyperlocals
6:29
	
	
Comment From Glyn Mottershead  
@Janet - talk in plain English or Welsh rather than officialese in 
either langauge
6:29
	
	
Bethan: 
why do you see the need for an online welsh language radio station huw?
6:29
	
	
Comment From Marc Webber  
Your average welsh person will not go looking for political sites - 
they want the info to come to them ( I pay my council tax why should i 
go looking for the debate)!
6:30
	
	
Ken Skates AM: 
Just picking up on two points;
1. Regarding robust online debate, is there a risk that anoymous 
blogging and comments have a corrosive effect on political dialogue?
2.Is there a role for public subsidy to support new models of media 
ownership in Wales if local authority adverts etc cannot be guaranteed?
6:30
	
	
Comment From Robert Andrews  
Bethan: it's the strategy just about every media organisation is 
using. That said, it doesn't mean that upstarts haven't also started, 
for example, their own local paper-based pamphlets in Cardiff suburbs.
6:30
	
	
Comment From Marc Webber  
Peter is right. Information and debates need to be accessible anytime, 
anyplace, anywhere
6:30
	
	
Comment From Daniel Grosvenor  
*Waves* I do believe I've finally managed to log in! What'd I miss?
6:30
	
	
Comment From Joni Ayn Alexander  
yes, Rick. And I think Addiply is trying to address journalists hatred 
of ad sales. Should add that even if you like ad sales, if you're a 
journalist it can/could prove a tricky to deal with journalistic 
ethical issues.
6:30
	
	
Comment From David Williams  
RickWaghorn: Liking your input
6:30
	
	
Comment From Huw Marshall  
Independence of voice
6:31
	
	
Comment From Huw Marshall  
and there's also a business case for it
6:31
	
	
Comment From David Williams  
I am currently awaiting a Freedom of Info request for how much Powys 
spends on local newspapers but believe it be in excess of 150,000K per 
year. And it is positioned in a newspaper where it is not read... we 
can bring these notices alive for a fraction of the cost that will 
help us sustain and grow our business
6:31
	
	
Comment From Robert Andrews  
Re: local government -- I take the point about advertising, but you 
can't deny a citizen's right to have information communicated by its 
local authority. I happen to think the whole process of citizen 
engagement with government, local or national, would be improved by 
outsourcing the whole facilitation to MySociety, the people behind 
TheyWorkForYou. Even now, I don't believe Welsh Assembly proceedings 
are available through that sit.
6:31
	
	
Ken Skates AM: 
How can information be provided through online debate without being 
'framed' by contributors? Debate and information are very different, 
so will there always be a need to impartial news providers?
6:31
	
	
Comment From Peter D Cox  
Janet: I don't want to sound facetious - but watching Assembly 
proceedings, and eg Cardiff Council meetings is like sticking pins in 
one's own eyes. It's inherently not good viewing even if (and it's 
not) the standard of debate/engagement made it worthwhile. Sorry ...
6:32
	
	
Comment From Huw Marshall  
We currently have two main welsh language broadcasters, S4C and Radio 
Cymru, both of which have their news from the BBC
6:32
	
	
Comment From Neil Cocker  
I think a Welsh language online station would have to be pretty niche. 
I know that Radio Cymru is far too middle of the road for most youth 
listeners. And it may well help to improve exposure to Welsh language 
artists (I sit on the board of directors of Welsh Music Foundation, so 
have an interest in this).
6:32
	
	
Comment From Huw Marshall  
there is a need for plurality, especially in news coverage in the 
Welsh language
6:32
	
	
Comment From RickWaghorn  
Tragedy is that the IFNC never happened...
6:32
	
	
Comment From Daniel Grosvenor  
Ken - An issue I've found a lot (working in the public sector, where a 
lot of jobs are ultimately government-funded) is that many people shy 
away from political blogging UNLESS it's anonymous, simply because 
they're afraid that voicing personal political opinions could result 
in their funding being cut.
6:33
	
	
Comment From David Williams  
I just feel in point 2 Ken that the system of advert placement by 
governing body needs to be fairer and catch up with modern day habits. 
People simply dont get their information as a whole from newspapers. 
Public funding/grants is fine (I am sure the people of Montgomeryshire 
wouldn't mind us receiving grants as they are receiving a free 
service) but it would be much fairer as a business model to be 
supported through advertising
6:33
	
	
Comment From Marc Webber  
Huw and the Radio'r Cymry lot are spot on. Welsh Language people 
deserve choice just as much as English Lang. I am a big fan of BBC R 
Cymru but it will only get better if it has competiton. Online allows 
competition to happen at a much cheaper level
6:33
	
	
Comment From Peter D Cox  
And politics needs to be 'framed' to make it connect - even BBC/ITV 
aren't good at that. GuardianCardiff did in well imho.
6:33
	
	
Comment From David Williams  
It could also save the tax payer hundreds of thousands a year
6:33
	
	
Janet Finch-Saunders: 
Peter,

What can I say ?
6:33
	
	
Comment From Glyn Mottershead  
Agree with Robert Andrews - I went to a hack day earlier in the year 
where a team of journalists and developers were looking to find ways 
to make the Sennedd's data more accessible.
6:33
	
	
Bethan: 
let's hope that the welsh artists get paid better PRS then on this new 
radio station @neil @huw:-)
6:34
	
	
Ken Skates AM: 
By the way, please feel free to speak in Welsh.
6:34
	
	
Comment From Glyn Mottershead  
Claire Miller from Media Wales has been blogging about Open Data in 
Wales http://clairemiller.net/blog/category/open-data/
6:34
	
	
Ken Skates AM: 
we have a translation service here
6:34
	
	
Comment From RickWaghorn  
Me? I'd build a platform with channels of content... Live/Cardiff 
(council/health), Love/Cardiff (tourism), Learn/Cardiff (education), 
Shop/Cardiff (retail) etc etc... and repeat... drop your Assembly 
videos into the 'Live' space and see who wants to access it... it 
personalise the platform...
6:34
	
	
Comment From Huw Marshall  
both are seen as the establishment, if we want to appeal to the 40% 
and growing of Welsh speakers who are under 30, we need to offer 
services which appeal to them
6:34
	
	
Comment From Huw Marshall  
fact that they don't currently engage with tv and radio through the 
medium of Welsh doesn't mean they don't want to
6:34
	
	
Comment From Peter D Cox  
Janet - sometimes silence from politicians is the best response :)
6:35
	
	
Comment From Imogen Barrer  
Sorry for coming in late to this. I'm dong the MA in Broadcast 
journalism at Cardiff University and write for a new politics blog 
called Wales Now. I come from New zealand and our media landscape is 
similar to Wales in many ways. One of our top news sites manages to 
combine national news and hyper-local news effectively by acting as a 
meeting-place for provincial and national newspaper and online 
writers, bloggers, and columnists. I think one of the key things that 
makes them successful is that as well as having the online news sites 
for each region, they also have the pdf's and live viewers of every 
weekly suburban 'local rag' available on the day it's released.
6:35
	
	
Comment From Neil Cocker  
Bethan - that's a huge debate that's best not started here ;-)
6:35
	
	
Comment From Huw Marshall  
As for Niche, you are looking at a potential audience of 600,000 
speakers online (and its growing) world wide
6:35
	
	
Comment From Glyn Mottershead  
How are we doing for rollout of broadband into rural areas? That will 
affect how a lot of people engage with it - infrastructure still not 
in place. With no newspapers and limited broadcast time that equals 
democratic deficit
6:36
	
	
Ken Skates AM: 
Thanks Glyn, to what extent is broadband access impacting on the size 
of the audiences available to online ventures in Wales?
6:36
	
	
Ken Skates AM: 
The information 'not spots' problem has been raised by several 
witnesses to the group
6:36
	
	
Bethan: 
welcome Imogen. New Zeland sounds fascinating in terms of what it does.
6:36
	
	
Comment From Marc Webber  
Bethan, the PrS system fails welsh musicans whatever lingo They speak. 
We need a whole new model
6:37
	
	
Comment From Daniel Grosvenor  
Forget rural. I live just outside of Barry and can barely get a 512 
connection for my house.
6:37
	
	
Comment From David Williams  
we have areas in Montgomeryshire that still use dial up
6:37
	
	
Bethan: 
so until we get broadband roll out, going online and developing online 
start ups, how viable is it?
6:37
	
	
Comment From David Williams  
in the towns it is very slow but BT have just announced they are 
upgrading in some areas
6:38
	
	
Comment From Peter D Cox  
Am I the only person who wants to plead for bi-lingual platforms for 
media - not just 'translations' but genuine cross fertilisation. I'd 
rather have one really good Welsh tv/radio service using both 
languages than two underfunded ones (with diminishing content 
generated locally anyway)?
6:38
	
	
Comment From Marc Webber  
Ken, Bethan -here's my wish list for Welsh media
6:38
	
	
Comment From Huw Marshall  
We also need to bring together the likes of Neil and Rick and 
introduce them to the online community to make them aware of the huge 
potential there is for business via online media
6:38
	
	
Comment From RickWaghorn  
Those 'channels' of content is how Yahoo work with Starbucks in the 
US; Yahoo local ads help pay for the free wifi in the coffee shops... 
now repeat for local towns... partner with a wifi/wireless company 
that doesn't own mile upon mile of copper cable...
6:39
	
	
Comment From Peter D Cox  
Immogen: sounds like your example was just like the Guardian's 
'experiment' which worked, then was closed down in favour of US 
expansion ie generate revenue.
6:39
	
	
Comment From RickWaghorn  
Mobile (wifi/wireless), Social (Robert, Marc re FaceBook, etc...) and 
Local... three pillars of E Schmidt wisdom
6:39
	
	
Comment From Marc Webber  
1) open data from all parts of welsh Gvt and assembly - be first Gvt 
in world to adopt creative commons and ditch crown copyright
6:40
	
	
Comment From Robert Andrews  
"People simply dont get their information as a whole from newspapers" 
-- key point. Traditional news organisations are being 
distintermediated... why would I look to The Western Mail for Scarlets 
team news when I can get it direct from the team, why the Echo for, 
let's say, local bin collection times, when it's on cf.gov.uk? 
Extrapolate that to the political economy. In that context, it may be 
appropriate for there to be an effective platform for citizen 
engagement with the assembly, commissioned by the assembly. Especially 
if you believe that the worsening media crash may result in an absence 
of engagement *via* the medium of the press. But an impartial press 
absolutely remains necessary to interrogate the areas direct citizen 
communication cannot uncover.
6:40
	
	
Comment From Huw Marshall  
Talk About Local under the guidance of Will Perrin organised an 
unconference in Cardiff discussing the online community in Wales 
earlier this year
6:40
	
	
Comment From David Williams  
It is very viable... like I say, we have shown in two very rural 
'quiet' areas that there is huge demand for online local news
6:40
	
	
Comment From Joni Ayn Alexander  
Head spinning trying to speed read the Qs and As here. I'm fond of the 
less "hyperlocal" but digitally driven news orgs in the states: 
TexasTribune, Voice of San Diego, MinnPost. If someone told me to go 
make a new digital news platform in Wales, I'd be seriously looking at 
how they're doing it. That said, Glyn is spot on. No point -- and no 
business case -- if the digital infrastructure is not adequately in 
place.
6:41
	
	
Comment From Huw Marshall  
It was very well attended and sparked a great deal of discussion and 
several actual happening projects have materialised thanks to it
6:41
	
Ken Skates AM: 
Marc, Robert, these are really strong points
6:41
	
	
Comment From Glyn Mottershead  
@Ken I think that is an issue for all forms of media - Neath Port 
Talbot Magnet, Marc's project, the kind of work Huw is talking about 
are trying to solve the problem within infrastructure constraints. I'd 
also add that free data in a form that is easy to work with would make 
their message stronger
6:41
	
	
Comment From Marc Webber  
3) put an internet cafe in every post office
6:41
	
	
Comment From RickWaghorn  
Peter/Immogen We were generating revenue... just ran up against 
Guardian ad network...
6:41
	
	
Comment From David Williams  
please feel free to take a look at www.mywelshpool.co.uk to see how 
rich the content is and how well supported we are by the local 
business community. We reached our millionth page view after just nine 
months and visitors figures continue to grow... it is no longer the 
future, it is the now
6:41
	
	
Comment From Huw Marshall  
The real problem with the Guardian Cardiff project was how successful 
it actually was. I got the impression the Guardian could see the way 
it was heading
6:42
	
	
Comment From Marc Webber  
4) give OFCOM Power's on local radio and tv to a Welsh OFCOM, 
answerable to Cardiff Bay
6:42
	
	
Comment From Carl Morris  
dyma fersiwn mawr o'r ffenestr sgwrs 
http://www.coveritlive.com/index.php?option=com_altcaster&task=siteviewa
ltcast&altcast_code=2894ee90be&height=750&width=1000 #joio
6:42
	
	
Comment From RickWaghorn  
Joni Ayn... so you roll out with a digital infrastructure provider...
6:42
	
Bethan: 
Marc, I don't undertand this, sorry if you think I should!
'1) open data from all parts of welsh Gvt and assembly - be first Gvt 
in world to adopt creative commons and ditch crown copyright '
6:43
	
Assembly/Cynulliad: 
@Carl Morris here's a large version of the chat window
6:43
	
Comment From Carl Morris  
gweler tystiolaeth Richie Turner / see Richie Turner's evidence
6:43
	
Ken Skates AM: 
@Marc, can you resend point 2?
6:44
	
	
Comment From Carl Morris  
.. rydyn ni'n treulio amser ac yn gwario arian ar hyfforddiant i 
arbenigwyr newyddion ac mae gwaedu mawr i Lundain / we spend time and 
money on training for news specialists and much of it drains to London
6:45
	
	
Comment From Guest  
diolch carl, maehynny yn help mawr / thank you Carl, that's a big help
6:45
	
	
Comment From Peter D Cox  
Bethan and Marc: start with publicly funded assets like the US - 
anything that uses public money (however small) is assumed to be in 
the public domain - no rights at all. So schools lesson plans, 
government maps, etc
6:45
	
	
Comment From Glyn Mottershead  
@Bethan - data put out in the UK is often crown copyright which brings 
in restrictions about use. Some is actually under commonwealth 
copyright and belongs to Aus and NZ, so makes it difficult for people 
to reuse data which the tax payer has funded in the first place
6:45
	
	
Comment From Bethan  
agree on point 4 Marc!
6:45
	
	
Comment From Robert Andrews  
whoah! it's carl morris
6:45
	
Bethan: 
thanks Glyn
6:45
	
Ken Skates AM: 
Glyn, your suggestion would effectively provide raw material/info and 
enable people to distribute it in the way they wish, correct?
6:46
	
	
Comment From RickWaghorn  
MyWelshpool is excellent... and always loved the *my* - ie its 
personal to me... now lets strengthen David's arm again by giving him 
access to targetted health authority ads, Land Rover national 'brand' 
ads... TescosLocal ads... etc etc... so he gets the best of both 
worlds... but on his terms, not the ad networks.
6:46
	
	
Comment From Carl Morris  
ymddiheuriadau, ceisio newid fy llun proffil / Apologies, I'm trying 
to change my photo profile
6:46
	
	
Comment From Imogen Barrer  
Peter- That's a real shame. www.stuff.co.nz as it's called is 
award-winning and profitable, continuing to hire staff. Huw, can you 
elaborate on your point re Guardian forseeing how successful Guardian 
Cardiff was?
6:46
	
	
Comment From Marc Webber  
At the moment, crown copyright restricts all things that can be done 
with welsh assembly and government docs. You can only share them in 
certain ways, you can't add annotations or amendments - creative 
commons would allow more freedom of sharing and discussion around 
welsh Govt policy and welsh assembly discussions like this
6:46
	
	
Comment From Glyn Mottershead  
@Carl - not true in the direct sense. Journalists pay to train 
themselves at the early part of their career
6:46
	
	
Comment From Robert Andrews  
Re: Marc's point on open data - the assembly could be giving out more 
information about itself to the people directly and digitally, with a 
commitment to do so, not having to rely on news media to carry its 
message. That shouldn't negate news media's right to interrogate 
adjacent areas. Currently, assembly info doesn't even go out to 
TheyWorkForYou.com.
6:47
	
Ken Skates AM: 
This would also enable debate to have a reference point
6:47
	
	
Comment From Glyn Mottershead  
@Ken - within an acceptable reuse licence. So eg 
http://creativecommons.org/
6:47
	
	
Comment From David Williams  
thanks Rick... it does seem there could be a 'network' of sites like 
ours that could possibly group together to make it a more attractive 
proposition to the national media buyers and government bodies
6:47
	
	
Comment From Huw Marshall  
the guardian service was innovative and showed the way forward for a 
NON paper based news service
6:48
	
	
Comment From Huw Marshall  
I, like many others out there (a medium but rapidly growing section of 
society) get my news firstly via twitter
6:48
	
Bethan: 
I thought the whole point of Guardian Cardiff was a pilot to expand to 
the rest of Wales, not to retreat.
6:48
	
Ken Skates AM: 
And it would enable people to follow the framing process of raw 
material to news and debate @Glyn
6:48
	
	
Comment From Robert Andrews  
Guardian Cardiff was loss-making within GNM, which is loss-making 
within GMG, which is subsidised by a trust, supported by two large 
cash-cow assets.
6:48
	
	
Comment From Carl Morris  
Marc, dylai popeth o'r Llywodraeth/Cynulliad bod yn y parth cyhoeddus 
nid Creative Commons. Pam lai? Ti'n talu amdano fe / Marc, everything 
from the Government/Assembly should be in the public domain not 
creative commons. Why not? You're paying for it
6:48
	
	
Comment From RickWaghorn  
Imogen, Peter... the *threat* was the advertising model; they wanted 
that space to drop their EuroStar ads (London-Paris fares) into... 
they did not want Toyota (Cardiff) ads being placed in their space 
instead...
6:49
	
	
Comment From Huw Marshall  
which then leads me to discover more about online
6:49
	
	
Comment From Marc Webber  
My point 2 was for us as a nation to stop thinking BT will resolve our 
poor broadband issues. BT does not care about offering super fast 
broadband to Wales because there's little profit in it. Let's support 
satellite broadband companies who can beam in broadband connections 
via sky dishes - or even encourage churches to put wi fi masts on 
their masts
6:49
	
	
Comment From Huw Marshall  
which is exactly what the Guardian Cardiff provided succesfully
6:49
	
	
Comment From Neil Cocker  
I'm afraid I have to leave the conversation shortly. But I would like 
to stress that through all my dealings with startups (using the 
Silicon Valley definition) in Cardiff I really worry that I honestly 
don't see where the Welsh Facebook / Google / Twitter / Tumblr is 
coming from? We have all the talent, and the passion, and sufficient 
infrastructure for some digital business here to make a global mark, 
but I don't see it happening currently. A city of our size and talent 
should be doing better. It could take a decade or more to improve our 
digital startup culture. And by then it may be too late. Happy to 
discuss my thoughts and plans offline via neil@dizzyjam.com at any time.
6:49
	
Bethan: 
huw- that's how I get my news in the morning too, via twitter. If 
waleonline updated earlier than 10am, then perhaps I would go there!
6:49
	
	
Comment From Peter D Cox  
Huw: I think the important lesson from Guardian Cardiff was 
professional journalism (that sometimes made it into print) within a 
framework of a news organisation. It had 'guests' (like me) but was 
subbed and moderated. Compare with WalesOnline for example.
6:50
	
	
Comment From Glyn Mottershead  
@Huw - it was also good due to plurality as Your Cardiff under Ed 
Walker was a direct response to Guardian Cardiff. @Bethan it was one 
of three projects in England, Wales and Scotland - officially an 
"experiment"
6:50
	
Bethan: 
thanks Neil. Will be in touch!
6:51
	
	
Comment From Carl Morris  
@Bethan anghywir, roedd Guardian Cardiff yn arbrawf yn unig - rhan o 
Guardian Local. Mae'r cwmni yn rhoi ffocws ar y marchnad Americanaidd 
bellach / @Bethan, wrong, Guardian Cardiff was only an experiment, 
part of Guardian Local. The company is now focus on the American market
6:51
	
Ken Skates AM: 
@Huw; Twitter has the beauty of restricted info, so the prospect of it 
being framed or shaped by opinion is limited, hence news spreads 
without being prejudiced
6:51
	
	
Comment From RickWaghorn  
The trick is to enable David and Welshpool to access the kind of 
national brands that Duncan services at www.emo.uk.com BUT with David 
charging Tescos per week, per month and NOT giving his ad space away 
on a click or CPM model...
6:51
	
	
Comment From Huw Marshall  
there was immediacy to it
6:51
	
	
Comment From Huw Marshall  
I agree Peter
6:51
	
	
Comment From David Williams  
On another note, there are also a lot of journalists 'forced' to 
retire too early who will never get a job again in newspapers. We are 
offering an opportunity to become an editor of a 'my' site (only part 
time but wuld be enough to supplement a woeful newspaper pay-off and 
keep their hand in). Surely this is worth supporting at Welsh 
Assembly/County Council level?
6:51
	
	
Comment From Neil Cocker  
It's a very important point that HUw makes. I get my news via Twitter 
first and foremost, then "drill down" through relevant outlet to get 
more detailed news (e.g. sports blogs for sports opinion, Al Jazeera 
for middle east news, BBC for UK news etc etc).
6:51
	
	
Comment From Huw Marshall  
I never buy a newspaper these days not even the Western Mail when I'm 
"featured" in it :o)
6:52
	
	
Comment From Marc Webber  
Guys, London based media companies are not likely to be eyeing Wales 
as a cash cow - we are on our own. So let's innovate and create our 
own small media and tech empires -and then sell them on to people down 
the line
6:52
	
	
Comment From Peter D Cox  
And as soon as GuardianCardiff closed WalesOnline crawled back to its 
old ways.
6:52
	
	
Comment From Glyn Mottershead  
@Peter - that was one of the strengths of the project (disclaimer I 
was Hannah's tutor and part of the original scoping visit from the 
editor)
6:52
	
	
Comment From Imogen Barrer  
Shame the Guardian couldn't find a way to accommodate both priority 
customer advertising and those of local businesses.
6:52
	
Janet Finch-Saunders: 
Agree with Marc
6:52
	
	
Comment From RickWaghorn  
The claim against GdnCardiff, Leeds and Edinburgh was that they were 
'unsustainable...' Show me a web page on TheGuardian that *is* 
sustainable in their current revenue models... they're still making 
digital dimes, not real dollars.
6:52
	
	
Comment From Huw Marshall  
Ken, we need to look at ways of harnessing information and news which 
is being generated by places like twitter and aggregate it into a 
central website or a mobile app
6:53
	
	
Comment From Hannah Waldram  
Hi all,
6:53
	
	
Comment From Hannah Waldram  
Apologies for coming late to this. Noticed Guardian Cardiff has been 
mentioned a bit. Is there anything I can answer?
6:53
	
Bethan: 
@carlmorris- diolch. Doeddwn i ddim yn sicr beth oedd cynlluniau 
Guardina Cardiff.
6:53
	
	
Comment From Marc Webber  
We drown Welsh innovation in red tape. It's the reason many choose to 
leave the country. I co-founded Bridge FM, I left Wales to enhance my 
career. Let's please stop people like me having to do that by 
supprorting the small and the brave
6:53
	
	
Comment From David Williams  
spot on Rick
6:53
	
Ken Skates AM: 
Marc, is there any other action the Welsh Gov could take to make this 
a reality, beyond what you placed in your suggestions earlier?
6:54
	
	
Comment From Huw Marshall  
the technologies are there to develop these services and advertisers 
would want to be placed within them
6:54
	
	
Comment From RickWaghorn  
David... how many ad sales people are also forced to take early 
retirement? They are the ones with the key skill set... how to *sell*...
6:54
	
Bethan: 
so how do we help journo's who have recently been made redundant, who 
may not have skills online, to start up their own business?
6:54
	
Assembly/Cynulliad: 
@carlmorris- diolch. Doeddwn i ddim yn sicr beth oedd cynlluniau 
Guardina Cardiff. Thank you. wasn't sure what Guardian Cardiff's plans 
were
6:54
	
	
Comment From Daniel Grosvenor  
Just in time, Hannah. :)
6:54
	
	
Comment From Peter D Cox  
I still don't think that effective digital media can thrive without 
the sort of infrastructure that should support a print and broadcast 
output. It's just too expensive and needs to spread its infrastructure 
costs. Could we not fund a Welsh media centre for example, regardless 
of who uses the output, or for what?
6:54
	
	
Comment From Huw Marshall  
Rick, what's the expected online ad spend for 2015 against what it was 
a couple of years back? Its big isn't it?
6:55
	
	
Comment From Huw Marshall  
I was saying how brilliant you were Hannah!!!
6:55
	
Bethan: 
a welsh media centre, peter. can you expand on that? So people could 
get content from a central point and use it on differing platforms?
6:55
	
	
Comment From RickWaghorn  
Shame the Guardian couldn't find a way to accommodate both priority 
customer advertising and those of local businesses. Imogen... it 
*could*, but wouldn't... our commerical contract with GNM was 
terminated the week the GdnLocal sites closed.
6:56
	
	
Comment From Carl Morris  
Roedd Guardian yn gallu arbrofi mwy ar yr ochr hysbysebion lleol yn 
sgil y blog ardderchog, gwastraff o gyfle masnachol (o fy safbwynt i) 
/ The Guardian was able to experiment more with local advertising 
thanks to the excellent blog, a wasted commercial opportunity (in my 
opinion)
6:56
	
	
Comment From Daniel Grosvenor  
Bethan, you say "journos who don't have skills online" - I would argue 
that there isn't a great deal of IT literacy needed. A knowledge of 
web coding, for instance, isn't important to be a successful 
blogger/microblogger.
6:56
	
	
Comment From Huw Marshall  
Peter, are you talking video? the infrastrtucture needed for online 
text and audio is miniscule in comparison
6:56
	
	
Comment From Peter D Cox  
Hannah: just come back :)
6:56
	
Ken Skates AM: 
Everyone, we're running out of time, what other issues do you think 
the Task and Finish Group should look at and why?
6:56
	
	
Comment From Hannah Waldram  
Agree with Marc - there's too much emphasis on start ups having to 
have a Welsh flavour. Bethan I think the Assembly could help with 
initial funding for start ups - but not put too much pressure on them 
having to focus only on Wales. The idea of a community-led news site 
reporting on local events is still a real possibility.
6:56
	
	
Comment From Daniel Grosvenor  
(Apologies if comments seem slightly out of context. There's quite a 
delay.)
6:56
	
	
Comment From David Williams  
Indeed Rick... we hire a 'retired' ad lady on a self-employed basis 
which means she works per day when we need her (normally six-eight 
days a month)... There are a lot out there we would like to tap into 
and keep active
6:56
	
	
Comment From Peter D Cox  
Bathan: I just made it up, but I think that's what I would mean if I 
could think about it ...
6:57
	
Bethan: 
Daniel- fair enough. So you've answered the question then... excellent!
6:57
	
	
Comment From Glyn Mottershead  
@Daniel - it is about attitude rather than skills. A lot of older 
journalists see print as being destroyed by the web and free information
6:57
	
	
Comment From Joni Ayn Alexander  
Isn't BBC Wales sort of a "Wales media centre"? We all fund it with a 
license fee.
6:57
	
	
Comment From Huw Marshall  
The idea of media centres is out dated. When the BBC were relocating 
5live from London, they shouldn't have gone to Manchester, they should 
have gone to EVERYWHERE
6:57
	
	
Comment From RickWaghorn  
Huw... yes... in the US online local advertising is due to overtake 
newspapers for the first time next year... Borrell Associates predict 
a 19.6% rise in local online advertising in the US for 2012; rising 
from $14.8 billion to $18 billion...
6:57
	
Ken Skates AM: 
@Daniel; you'right and most journos have are multi-skilled now as they 
often do the job of online sub editors too!
6:57
	
	
Comment From Marc Webber  
The biggest non-monetary thing the Welsh Gvt can do aside from my list 
of 4 is be a far bigger cheerleader and supporter for the small 
ventures that are on here today talking to you. Councils should be 
falling over themselves to support sites like Welshpool online and FYI 
'cos it could save them money and get them a new audience
6:58
	
	
Comment From Huw Marshall  
We are still thinking in terms of old technologies and not embracing 
the new (or not so new these days) ones.
6:58
	
	
Comment From Peter D Cox  
Huw - I think video is possible too now. We accept dodgy phone cams 
shots (but shouldn't off course)
6:58
	
	
Comment From Glyn Mottershead  
Peter's point about multiplatform centre which is essentially a 
foundation funded "news agency" is something that could be 
interesting. Huw a gathering point of information - like a wires 
service for bloggers
6:58
	
	
Comment From Daniel Grosvenor  
Agree with Huw
6:58
	
	
Comment From David Williams  
Ken, would be happy to meet anytime.
6:59
	
Bethan: 
I was talking from experience by the by re journo's without online 
skills. Some came to me for help and told me that they were not 
particularly comfortable with online work...
6:59
	
	
Comment From Hannah Waldram  
Would just like to point out comments on Guardian Cardiff here are a 
little unfounded - from RobertA, Rick and Huw. Bethan - it was never 
meant to be something which would expand to Wales - it was always 
supposed to be a local project.
6:59
	
Ken Skates AM: 
@Marc, could it be that some councils are suspicious of information 
providers that are new or whom they have no power/influence over?
6:59
	
	
Comment From Peter D Cox  
Glyn has thought and put the idea much better. Thanks.
6:59
	
Ken Skates AM: 
Thanks David, that would be very helpful
6:59
	
Bethan: 
thanks for explaining that Hannah:-)
7:00
	
	
Comment From Hannah Waldram  
Having an Assembly funded coworking space for bloggers, meet ups and 
new start ups would be ace - I thought that was the plan for the new 
media centre.
7:00
	
	
Comment From Marc Webber  
I read the Western Mail and I still think it is a paper worth reading. 
But it has a circ. Of 40odd thousand and there are nearly 900k people 
in Wales on facebook. But I sometimes think the welsh Gvt cares more 
about what is said on W Mail than on FBook
7:00
	
	
Comment From David Williams  
Hear hear Marc... support would be very appreciated... I know I have 
made it sound easy but it has - and is - bloody hard work but we can 
see the value in the product
7:00
	
	
Comment From Robert Andrews  
Hannah - I never said that it was supposed to. I always knew it was a 
local experiment :-)
7:00
	
	
Comment From RickWaghorn  
Marry your visions of Welsh media with wifi/wireless provision; and 
*watch* what Sky and The Cloud are doing in the North-East.
7:00
	
	
Comment From Glyn Mottershead  
One project I have come across is http://www.filtonvoice.co.uk/ which 
is also has a print edition and has so far done more than break even 
at a very, very early stage
7:00
	
	
Comment From Huw Marshall  
But it worked, didn't it Hannah?
7:00
	
Bethan: 
great ideas from this. we should do this type of thing more often to 
encourage debate.
7:00
	
	
Comment From Huw Marshall  
Marc, I couldn't possibly comment re WM....
7:01
	
Ken Skates AM: 
Ok , we've now come to the end of our chat I'm afraid.
7:01
	
	
Comment From RickWaghorn  
Am happy to do a trip to Cardiff... beers on Glynn in the Goat Major (?)
7:01
	
	
Comment From Glyn Mottershead  
Hannah - we have a small space where people can come and work (as you 
well know ;D) and we are working on more collaborative ideas too
7:01
	
Ken Skates AM: 
Many thanks for all your contributions
7:01
	
Janet Finch-Saunders: 
Yes, agree with Bethan.
7:01
	
	
Comment From Hannah Waldram  
Don't want to get into this here Robert - was talking about your 
comments RE financial stuff around Loca. Not for here.
7:01
	
Bethan: 
I hope we are keeping a record of what was said...
7:01
	
	
Comment From Peter D Cox  
Thanks everyone. Great.
7:01
	
Ken Skates AM: 
@Bethan, yes
7:01
	
	
Comment From Robert Andrews  
Glyn - if the local thing can really be profitable, then I'd like to 
see a compendium of case studies of the successes. Develop a template 
business model around that and deploy it?
7:01
	
	
Comment From Daniel Grosvenor  
Hosts: Considering we're typing one line at a time here, why not 
continue this sort of discussion daily over Twitter?
7:02
	
Bethan: 
diolch pawb. Cyfarfod nawr. Gorfod mynd! diolch got to go, meeting 
calling!
7:02
	
	
Comment From Huw Marshall  
I still think an unconference along the lines of Talk About Locals 
event at the Atrium is the way forward
7:02
	
Ken Skates AM: 
I have my quill and parchment in front of me, taking notes
7:02
	
	
Comment From Glyn Mottershead  
They'd fall off Rick ;D - be interested to meet up with anyone 
interested, several of you I know some I don't
7:02
	
	
Comment From Hannah Waldram  
@Huw it was a massively successful project - editorially it nailed it. 
It wasn't sustainable in its form - but could totally be done again or 
picked up by the community
7:02
	
Assembly/Cynulliad: 
The web chat may be over but the debate certainly isn't. For those 
wanting to keep the conversation going we are leaving the comments box 
open on our blog for the time being.

http://nationalassemblyforwales.wordpress.com/2011/11/08/live-chat-beta/
7:02